Further discussion on the addressed concerns
Dear reviewer #AJBg,
We sincerely appreciate your time and valuable feedback on our paper. Regarding the raised concerns, we would like to make further discussions with you as below:
**Q1-1: Experiments to prove the value of the LLM**
**A1-1:** Regarding your concerns on whether experimental results in the paper (i.e, ***Tab.3c*** and ***Tab.6***) can prove the value of LLM, we make further explanation as below:
1. We agree that the differences between *v1.0** and *v1.5* in Tab.3c primarily lie in the advanced VQA data curated by LLaVA-v1.5. By training with these data, the LMM obtain more advanced multimodal content comprehension ability. And the enhanced ***object detection*** performance of *v1.5* compared with *v1.0** in Tab.3c prove that ***the LMM's multimodal comprehension is a general capability that also benefits vision-centric task***. Therefore, we employ the results comparison between *v1.0** and *v1.5* in Tab.3c to verify the value of LMM on vision-centric task.
Meanwhile, a similar phenomenon has also been observed in [1], where the LMM with enhanced multimodal comprenhension ability also performs better on the visual grounding task.
- [1] Shikra: Unleashing Multimodal LLM’s Referential Dialogue Magic
2. When evaluating on unseen categories, the two compared generalist models can be the baseline methods you suggested. Specifically, Pix2Seq-v2 is a vision-generalist that does not involve any LLM utilization, which can be the ***non-LLM baseline as you suggested***. Although InstructCV leverages a LLM to generate instruction data for training a text-to-image diffusion model, its generalization ability is mainly inherited from the CLIP-based image and text encoders of diffusion models, which can be the ***baseline that uses CLIP embeddings for language comprehension as you suggested***. Therefore, by comparing with these two generalists, the significantly enhanced generalization performances of our Lumen in Tab.6 can prove the value of LLM in terms of generalization.
**Q1-2: The narration of *`"specialized datasets"`***
**A1-2:** Thanks for your detailed suggestion. We will rephrase the *`"specialized datasets"`* as *`"meticulously curated specialized datasets"`* in the revised version.
**Q1-3: Further explanations on comparison with existing LMMs and generalization facilitated by LMM**
**A1-3:** ***Firstly***, strictly aligning with other LMMs in all aspects is currently intractable, as different LMMs are trained with their respective data and training recipes (*please refer to the data composition and strategies of training Qwen-VL and LLaVA for more detailed comparison*). ***Secondly***, all training data we used are publicly available and also used in the LMMs we compared, such as RefCOCO, RefCOCO+, and RefCOCOg, which are utilized in both Griffon and Shikra. ***Besides***, for tasks that existing LMMs do not support and cannot be seamlessly extended to, as discussed in our initial rebuttal, we are unable to apply the corresponding datasets to the LMMs we compared.
Overall, our Lumen not only achieves better or comparable performance on tasks that existing LMMs can handle, but also extends to novel vision-centric tasks.
For the proof of the generalization facilitated by LMM, generalization evaluation in Tab.6 supports our claim as discussed in ***A1-1.2 of this dialog box***.
**Q2-2: Explanation to claim in L290**
**A2-1:** In Tab.3a, we implement the *"Conv."* and *"Trans."* architectures with simple standard transformer and convolution layers. Since transformer has a global perceptive field while convolution only has a local one, *"Trans."* architecture facilitates denser cross-modal interaction (every element can interact with each other in the attention process) than the *"Conv."* one. Therefore, the better object detection performances achieved by *"Trans."* indicate that denser vision-language interaction facilitates better dense vision-language alignment. We will rephrase *`"complete vision-language interaction"`* in L290 to avoid confusion in the revised version.
**Q2-4: Explanation to phase 1**
**A2-4:** It is worth noting that (1) in order to balence vision-centric and the general-purpose conversational (GPC for short) ability, the ratio of VQA data to vision-centric data should be set to 2:1. In our current schedule, we train phase 2 for ***10k steps*** using such data ratio; (2) learning the dense instance perception (DIP for short) ability requires training for even longer, which is ***50k steps*** in current phase 1. If phase 1 and 2 are merged and the above conditions are met, we need to train at least ***50k * 3 = 150k steps*** to ensure both abilities are well learned. The training cost is significantly larger than our current schedule (***10k+50k=60k***). Having an independent phase 1 without VQA data lets the model focus on learning the DIP ability without affecting the GPC ability, then its learned ability can be maintained in phase 2 with less steps.